I GOT TO “i have just dominated him and he is my wife” AND HAD TO STEP AWAY FROM MY PHONE WHAT AT ALL MADE HIM THINK THAT THERE WAS NOTHING SEXIST ABOUT SAYING MEN HAVE FULL DOMINATION AND CONTROL OF THEIR WIVES? WHAT MAKES HIM THINK THIS IS NOT SEXISM???? SURPRISE, BOYS, U CAN B SEXIST W/O A GIRL EVEN BEING PRESENT!!!! U CAN B SEXIST IN A PLANE OR ON A TRAIN!!! WHAT A CONCEPT
PRINCE MAK WHY
"We teach girls that they cannot be sexual beings in the way that boys are”
please call some fuckin attention to this
Why are we paying attention to this? A long post on ableism in BtoB’s new mv (and what we as fans can do about it).
Hey y’all I know I’m a massive buzzkill all the time about kpop stuff so let’s continue with that because pyomina is right and we need to talk about this.
So I’ll admit that this actually slipped right by me as I watched the mv, and I understand that it probably did a lot of people, but I’ll try to explain it as best I can (and please let me know if I misrepresent something). However, this doctor scene did make me uncomfortable, although I couldn’t really articulate why until I saw some people posting about it. Actually, although I did enjoy the choreography and the scenes of BtoB being silly, I felt uncomfortable with the whole premise of the video, and now that I’ve thought about it a little more, I can articulate it a little better.
A quick note: This is long and although I tried to use the term “disabled or differently abled” as much as I could, I did not every time. I hope that this does not offend anyone who does not identify with these terms but is still affected by ableism.
A second quick note: In case anyone is wondering whether I am qualified to speak on this, I will put out there that I have struggled with mental illness my whole life, and as such, I do face ableism (although not as much as many people) and while I do not understand what it is like to live with physical disabilities, I do identify as differently abled. I welcome any respectful criticism from other disabled or differently abled folks if I have misrepresented anything.
So what is ableism?
The issue that is being discussed with this scene is ableism. For those who don’t know, ableism is discrimination against people with disabilities, either mental or physical. Ableism doesn’t always seem obvious or harmful, but it is common. For example, the term “derp face” is ableist, which is something that many people (including myself, until recently), don’t know. Here’s a brief explanation why that I pulled from this insightful post from fromonesurvivortoanother:
“The problem with this is simple: “derp” is ableist. The “derp face” especially so. Some people with disabilities such as Down’s Syndrome, Autism, Cerebral Palsy, and even certain forms of social anxiety have trouble controlling their facial expressions. Some people with disabilities also have difficulty verbalizing clearly because they are not able to control the muscles in their face like other people.
If you search for images of “derp” on google, you’ll find people with their eyes rolling opposite ways, and videos of people saying things like “hurr hurr, derp derp”.These portrayals, whether intentionally malicious or not, contribute to the image that people with disabilities are “abnormal” or “wrong” in some way. I doubt that these images are a simple coincidence— stupidity, lack of intelligence, and other similar ideas have always been cast on people with disabilities.”
Basically, the use of “derp face” (or other ableist terms like crazy, retard, idiot) as jokes normalize the idea that disabled and differently abled people are less intelligent, are abnormal, are useful only as the punch line of a joke. This idea is conveyed even if the person saying or listening to the joke or ableist term doesn’t mean it in a harmful way, because regardless of intent it contributes to the systematic discrimination against disabled and differently abled people.
So what does this have to do with BtoB?
In this scene, we see BtoB members in a hospital with Peniel as the doctor. Although the OP was particularly concerned about the part with Ilhoon in a wheelchair, I have issues with the entire scene.
Basically, the BtoB members are being portrayed as “sick” in some way. Eunkwang is crying uncontrollably and trying to bite his own first, Changsub is wiping his boogers on Eunkwang, Ilhoon is not only in a wheelchair but also appears to be laughing uncontrollably and tries to grab Peniel, and Minhyuk is giggling and clutching pictures of the “ugly” girls.
All of the members I mentioned are clearly being portrayed as sick. They are acting “crazy,” so to speak. They are portrayed in ways that are associated with how we view people with disabilities, both mentally (in the case of all of them) and physically (Ilhoon). Even though it is not made explicit, that is the very clear association that is given by this scene. And I have two major problems with this:
1. It portrays disability as a punch line, not as a serious problem that many people have to live with and are discriminated against for. Eunkwang trying to bit his finger, Ilhoon trying to grab Peniel’s leg, Minhyuk clutching the pictures are all supposed to be funny things. Fans are meant to think, “Wow, they’re acting so crazy!”
But why is this funny? For people with actual disabilities, these behaviors are part of the daily struggle that they face that cause them a lot of pain, and to use them as a punch line is to trivialize the struggles of disabled people and it’s incredibly offensive. While BtoB plays up these behaviors for laughs, actual disabled and differently abled people are judged for these behaviors that often they cannot control. They are denied jobs, paid less, they face violence for their disability. Jokes about disability are just as unacceptable as jokes about rape, jokes about race, jokes about LGBTQ folks or women. Oppressed people and their struggles should not be a punch line.
2. The “treatment” of the disabilities shown in the video implies that disabled people need to be kept silent, kept out of sight, kept away from “normal” people.” Look at how the doctor (Peniel) is shown responding to the members and their disabilities. He takes Eunkwang’s hand out of his mouth and shoves tissues in, violently silencing him. He shies away from Ilhoon, turns his wheelchair around and pushes him to face the wall, which he cannot move himself away from. He yanks the pictures away from Minhyuk and hypnotizes him so Minhyuk passes out.
This may seem harmless and funny, but given the history of disabled and differently abled people being silenced, attacked, or pushed out of sight, this scene is actually very harmful. Disabilities are a serious challenge for people living with them, and they need proper, professional treatment by a person who not only knows how to deal with the disability, but also respects their patient as a full person with their own emotions and humanity.
Too often disabled or differently abled people are seen as broken or incomplete, less human than abled people because of their disability. Their voices are silenced in the media and on an individual basis. They are often the victims of violence and abuse. They are often denied access to treatment or given improper treatment, perhaps against their will. And this discrimination and abuse against disabled and differently abled people is even worse when the person is also a person of color, LGBTQ, a woman, or working class.
These real manifestations of abuse towards disabled and differently abled people are reflected in BtoB’s video, and the fact that it is supposed to be funny shows that society does not view the struggles of disabled and differently abled people as a problem-it views them as a punch line. This is unacceptable, and that is why BtoB’s video is problematic.
Now, I feel the need to make a disclaimer here, because I don’t want people to immediately dismiss what I am saying because I am criticizing BtoB. I don’t necessarily blame BtoB for this, nor do I think that you cannot be a fan of them because of it. In fact, I’ve pointed out multiple times before that you can be a fan of problematic things.
However, BtoB has a large fan base, and those fans are affected by the media that BtoB produces. Statistically, many Melodies, myself included, likely identify as disabled or differently abled. This video shows a callous disregard for the struggles that those fans face by turning them into a punch line and reinforcing oppressive views, even in a humorous way.
Although I understand that BtoB likely did not choose to include this in the video, by participating in it, they are complicit in it. This does not mean I think that the BtoB members are ableist as individuals, or that they are bad people. However, I am disappointed, and I am hurt. This is not going to make me choose not to support BtoB, although if it did make fans choose to do that, I would respect that as a very valid decision. I personally still want BtoB to succeed, although I want them (or their company) to realize that this kind of video is not ok and to learn from it in the future.
However, I cannot be silent about it. As a fan, I think that it is important that we hold our idols and their companies and their fans to high standards, because what they do has a wide influence. That is why I think that it is important that we as fans talk about this-talk about why this video is problematic, talk about how we are not ok with it, and talk about how we as a fandom can avoid being ableist (and sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, classist) and how we hope that BtoB can avoid being ableist (and all those other things) in the future as well. This is an important dialogue to have if the fandom is going to be a safe space for all fans.
So what can you do?
Talk about it. We need to talk about this video and why this portrayal of disability is not ok. Call people out when they say that it is not harmful, is not a problem. Share personal experiences. Get the dialogue going. Reblog this post if you feel it is a good explanation of what’s going on in the video. Write your own posts. Comment on this one. Just talk about it.
However, if you identify as disabled or differently abled and do not feel comfortable talking about this, that is completely valid. You have to take care of yourself first, and I respect that decision 100%. However you feel about this video is valid, even if it does not bother you.
If you do not identify as disabled or differently abled, I still think it is important for you to talk about why this is not ok and call out problematic behavior. HOWEVER, you need to understand that as someone who is not affected by ableism, you cannot understand the struggles that someone who does identify as disabled or differently abled faces. Do not talk over someone who is disabled or differently abled when they are expressing how they feel about this issue. Do not invalidate their feelings about this. Do not make this about you, because it is not about you.
You should support them and respect their feelings on the matter, even if their feelings are that this video is not a problem. But also remember, just because some people who identify as disabled or differently abled don’t believe this video is offensive does not mean that it is. It’s great that this video has not hurt them, but it has hurt other disabled or differently abled people, and if you want to support them and make the fandom a safe space for them, then it is your responsibility to stand up against this kind of ableism when it is expressed by other abled people.
Lastly, I want to say that I do not intend to cause trouble with this post, but it is important, both in general and to me personally. I have struggled with mental disability my whole life; I do identify as differently abled and I am affected by ableism. However, I know that I am not perfect and I don’t always present things in the best way. If I have inadvertently said anything that is offensive or incorrect, I invite other folks who also identify as disabled or differently abled to comment on it and let me know, either through messages or reblogging. I hope that as a fandom we can talk about this in a way that makes the fandom a more inclusive and welcoming space for all fans.
Guys, this is something that needs to be stopped. It’s not funny, it’s annoying, and it’s pretty much harassing someone without even knowing it. I know some of you might send tweets to Mark’s dad thinking “oh he gets so many tweets a day he won’t see this” but trust me, he does. By now we all know he goes through every tweet he receives ; but is selective with his replies.
Marks dad created a twitter account to communicate with Got7 fans, and to joke around with us here and there. He did not create it to receive inappropriate tweets like this. Think before you tweet, because tweets like these makes Mark’s dad feel uncomfortable and it embarrasses Mark and yourself.
This goes for everyone who tweets Mark’s dad, DO NOT send him inappropriate tweets or photos, DO NOT send rude tweets and do not try to dig deep into Mark’s family’s personal life. Every one needs their privacy. Think before you tweet guys, because Papa Tuan’s goodbye tweet wasn’t as sweet as it usually was.
Once again, I’m bringing this issue back because Mark’s dad has once again expressed his disappointment towards rude tweets such as these. Guys, think before tweeting, it’s simple. Sending inappropriate tweets like these to Mark’s dad will do you no good, it will only be looked down upon by other people, and you’re not only embarrassing yourself by trying to be “funny”, but you’re embarrassing Mark as well. So PLEASE, think before tweeting, inappropriate tweets like these are disrespectful and should not be tolerated, especially if they’re towards Mark’s dad— an elder, and someone who is well respected for supporting Mark to become who he is today.
I wasn’t going to post this, but decided to. This is addressed to everyone, 인피니트 fans included.
The caption reads
“Dear everyone, before you object to this I want you to know that I realize that this mashup could be seen as a terrible thing to do to young Woohyun. I don’t even know whether it falls into the category of slander or libel or defamation or something. He’s a sweet guy and doesn’t deserve anything like that. I just happened to see the two posts side by side and thought it’d be funny to post them together like this. I like the asshole photo especially because it’s so focused and explicit the way the buttcheeks are being pulled to fully expose the hole. And, of course, we never see the INFINITE boys’ holes, even though they all have anuses. (Woohyun has an anus, I assure you.) Well, we do see a lot of shirt lifting in KPOP lately, but not much in the way of pants dropping. So, it’s kinda fun to think of Woohyun’s anus. Just my idea. But if this pisses you off I won’t be surprised. Anger/disgust could also be a valid reaction. :)”
Infinite fans, I wanted to see if you would post this to help get people to report a really gross blog.
east-asia-guys is a blog that got deleted for posting child porn ((They posted naked pictures of underage Asian boys). But the owner of the blog made a new one, called eam4m.tumblr.com
On that blog is this gross picture where he says really rapey and disgusting things about Nam Woohyun.
It really made me nauseous. I’m not a Korean pop fan, not an Infinite fan, but this is still immensely disgusting and I figure i’d read out to Infinite fans considering this.
Again his blog is eam4m.tumblr.com
I’m actually pretty sad by the fact I haven’t seen this on my dash more than once. Everyone seems to be ignorant of the situation, or has chosen to ignore it. Yet, if it were an EXO member doing this, a kpop blogger’s dash would be exploding with news, support, and awareness. But because this is a group that is small, is not as big as other groups, and there are little translators for them, most of us don’t even know what’s going on.
ZE:A’s leader, Lee Hoo (Junyoung) is tweeting and revealing the corruptions of his company and the truth of the entertainment industry. Guys, there is actually someone, who is already in a group, finally taking a direct stand towards their shitty company. He is slowly revealing the poor treatment on his members and himself, his cruel CEO that has abused them, and their money situation. While AllKpop isn’t the best site, at least there are clear translations of his tweets here. Also here. Lee Hoo left to meet with his CEO and settle matters.
We’re all aware of the cruelty of the kpop industry. We all know of SM’s infamous treatment to their employees. ZE:A’s company is a small company. Imagine how big companies are, with more money to use to cover stories. Lee Hoo has revealed their money arrangement was 70:30. 70% for the company, 30% for them. If the group earns one million KRW, the CEO takes 700,000, and ZE:A takes 300,000. Thing is, ZE:A has nine members. They have to split the 300,000 over and over to the nine members. EXO has twelve members. Super Junior has more. Even if they make more money, they still have the split the money, give most of it to the company, and work even harder to get more. There’s a reason why Hangeng and Kris left (actually, one reason out of many).
"They signed up for this! They should suck it up!" "They make plenty of money, they’re just greedy." "There’s no proof that the company actually abuses them." I can’t tell you how much I’m frustrated by these words. Look! A k-pop member is exposing it all on his official SNS. How much more proof do you need? Lee Hoo even says that after they sign the contract, they are made aware of the money deal. He has had to lie to the public about how he broke his leg to save face for a program.
They can’t say anything. They have to swallow their words, put on a flashy act for the public, and deal with the internal systems of the k-pop industry. EXO Lay has said this isn’t what he expected. Kris left under cruel and unfair treatment. The 9muses documentary showed us angering treatment toward the girls. Finally, someone is actually taking a direct, public stand.
From his latest tweet, he has come back now, and while I’m not sure of the correct translation, it seems he is winning, perhaps got the company under ZE:A? Please just make yourself aware, get #standbyzea trending, and celebrate your idols’ birthday while rooting for ZE:A :)
So I hear controversy over hae’s Arabic elsa and accusations of “brown face” as well when it’s kinda visible through most fan photos and cams that he’s currently quite tan? May I also remind you that suju is known for cosplaying other ethnicities in the past? I’m kinda curious as to why it’s seen as so extremely wrong as, stated before, they have done something like this before. Take in mind that Koreans often see things like these as pretty funny (although at times pretty racist) and suju maybe didn’t see this as offensive (this reminds me of shinee and the sombreros but I saw nothing wrong in that) and more as an homage to fans maybe? I won’t take sides though but maybe we’ll see some sort of apology to quell the fans… Who knows. Photo credit as tagged
so i already sent euminhae a few (hopefully polite!) asks regarding this post, sorry dear. not enough of us kpop fans are openly critical enough so i changed my mind and decided to post publicly instead of through private asks.
this kind of attitude runs rampant in our fandom - while it’s better than acknowledging problematic shit and saying “i just don’t care,” it’s just as harmful to say “i don’t see what the problem is” and gloss over the issue.
i’m getting this out of the way right now: it’s GOOD to be critical of your oppas and it doesn’t mean you have to hate them instead. you can support your faves and still call them out on this!!! ****
there are others who could say this more eloquently but i’ll try. firstly, whether or not donghae is tan lately has no bearing on the issue. brownface, (and blackface, and yellowface, etc) is an issue any time someone presents as a race which is not their own.
suju cosplaying as other ethnicities in the past doesn’t make this irrelevant. it means people haven’t been critical enough when that happens. i saw discussions about blackface before, probably because of the circles i run in, so yes people DO make a big deal about it all the time. we’re just not loud enough.
re: koreans seeing racial differences as funny. sweeping issues like this under the rug because many koreans don’t mean to be offensive does a disservice to them.i see a lot of people using this argument because they think it means they know a lot about korean culture, but actually that just proves the opposite (and veers dangerously into the realm of racism itself.) everyone is capable of learning why it’s important not to impersonate another race. korea is capable of doing better. pretending like koreans can’t understand why it’s a problem is infantalising them, which, coincidentally, is a vehicle for racism. think about why it’s wrong to make fun of the way an asian person looks or the way their accents sound: because westerners have been using that cultural difference to dehumanize asian people for centuries.
with regards to donghae himself. do i think he meant to offend anyone? hell naw. that kid has a heart of gold. does someone need to sit him down and tell him why this wasn’t the best costume choice? absolutely. the fact that it keeps happening in kpop means there aren’t enough people around them who will stop idols and tell them no. hence the whole “let’s not sweep racism under the rug just because we love someone.” personally, i’m inclined to believe that he thought it was a way of acknowledging and appreciating Arab ELF, but he went about it exactly the wrong way, and his intentions don’t negate the harm brownface causes.
in full agreement with rain—dear over my second fave donghae and all the implications of this. i personally don’t think his skin was even a touch darker, and that eliminates the discussion of brownface — unlike yesung’s nick fury costume, in which he definitely darkened his skin. most of the elsa’s reflected the superhero cosplays from earlier, like ryeowook’s gollum, and that’s clearly the nasty Iron Man facial hair rubber band thing from hae’s outfit.
even though i am south asian and muslim by birth, i personally have mixed feelings on deeming ANY use of foreign outfits as cultural appropriation though there is a shit ton of it in kpop as it is. i can’t see this as racism the way i see blackface and yellowface considering their historical contexts but i’m also not surprised that it’s generated questions and/or controversy. that’s the risk you take when you cosplay a stereotype of a different ethnic group instead of an actual PERSON. like, being a mexican for halloween is stupid because there are mexican people, but if you want to dress up as a specific mexican character or historical figure without resorting to brownface, i don’t think that’s inherently offensive. but here i can’t think of a specific person being cosplayed so… :/
Thank you both for responding on this and pointing out everything politely and I’m a way that’s very understanding. I see exactly what you’re getting it, and in that form, I will fix some of the ways I think about the culture itself. Having dealt with plenty of racism myself, I understand how plenty of your points make sense. I just wanted to see a clear answer as to why everyone was upset and I clearly saw it as myechi pointed it out at the end as they made have wanted to recreate previous costumes but for some reason it didn’t go that way. I apologize if I offended anyone but I was sincerely curious about this and now I know and have been greatly educated on the matter so I thank you both. I am not one to gloss things over, I do see something was done incorrectly and I hope they notice it as well.
I tried to tell them politely that they was being quite offensive by referencing to and joking about something that is clearly quite serious but they were too ignorant to understand and told me to go buy a good sense of humour. And then they deleted all of the comments of me trying to make them understand and all the comments of them being an ignorant asshole.
Can we please stop with the whole “it was just a joke” and the “you seem to be the only one offended”? It makes you sound really stupid. Just admit you did wrong and dont do it again.
Kpop fans MUST understand and realize that each and every single time you condone or defend or “pledge to support no matter what” an idol’s offensive actions, you’re doing far more harm to them by enabling their disgusting behaviour which only leads to more of it than what calling them out, telling them why it’s wrong, and forcing them to smarten up would.
seriouslysexytunes said: This is nothing but a random comment about the most recent post (about HaeTeuk twitter posts), not only is it stupid for them to comment on the spelling, they sound even more dumb because if they knew even a tiny about Kor-eng romanization, they'd know that both ways of spelling "Inkigayo" are correct. Leeteuk's way is the way you would spell it letter for letter, DH's is fine too because g and k are interchangeable and then there's the "regular" way which is spelled closely to how it sounds.